Can't believe that this thread has been dormant for so long. A true treasure trove of knowledge pertaining to playing the game as opposed to swinging the club.
Hoping Bennyhogan and Overkill (is that you nickname on tour?) still looks over us poor hackers, I will chime in with a few questions of my own.
1) How do you know that the chemistry with a player is gone?
2) If you are the first to detect it, will you seek employment elsewhere? (taking one for the team kind of approach)
3) Is crowd control more difficult at certain venues, or is it more depending on your status on the leaderboard?
4) If you have looped at a links course, how does it differ from a normal tourney?
5) Have you looped outside the US? How was that?
K
Happy New Year All
Thank you for the kind words; 'Overkill' is my nickname on Tour; it either has something to do with the fact that I was a Cop for over 30 years, or my prep. work, or my stat work or my detailing or something.
Sorry for the long nap, but I have been busy visiting here there and everywhere for the last while. However, it is now back to golf (work???) and I am leaving for the West Coast on Friday.
Your questions:
1. Here are some signs: When you as a caddie start tune him out; when you allow your player to do things that you know are low %; when your player seems to find something wrong or questions everything you do; when you or your player doesn't seem to care what the other is doing; and when it is no longer fun to come to work///
2. In the last 10 years I have only really detected it with one player and I quit after Westchester. I told him that we were not working together as a team and that staying together was not going to do either one of us any good. I still work with him from time to time, in fact I went to final stage of Eurp. Q school with him last year and he finished in the top 10.
3. I usually find Crowd control more of a problem when there are only a few people around; every little noise stands out and often, it seems no one is paying much attention to what is going on.
4. Yes; the biggest problem I have with links courses is the fact that with split tees, when you start on the back 9, you must leave for the tee at least 30 min. before your tee time. Your player cools down, gets bored, or becomes pissed off, etc. Pebble Beach is one of the worst for me.
5. Yes, several times; British Opens are great, they treat caddies like real people////
5. Yes, several times; British Opens are great, they treat caddies like real people////
That one came as a surprise. R&A for a long time had an abominable reputation among caddies in Europe. Obviously they all loved to be at the Open Championship, but their facilities were restricted to a few porta-potties.
One reason might be that the original St. Andrews caddies usually thought of themselves as the "brain" in the team, the player had it easy, all he had to do was hit the damn shot. They were the ones figuring out what club to use, what kind of shot to hit and were to aim. Sometimes that lead to conflicts with their employers, no at all uncommon that they dropped the clubs and walked into the Auld Grey Toon for a wee nip instead of watching a player botch a game.
But I understand that in the US - unlike on ET - sometimes caddies are restricted to enter locker rooms and may have difficulties in preparing their player's bag.
That one came as a surprise. R&A for a long time had an abominable reputation among caddies in Europe. Obviously they all loved to be at the Open Championship, but their facilities were restricted to a few porta-potties.
One reason might be that the original St. Andrews caddies usually thought of themselves as the "brain" in the team, the player had it easy, all he had to do was hit the damn shot. They were the ones figuring out what club to use, what kind of shot to hit and were to aim. Sometimes that lead to conflicts with their employers, no at all uncommon that they dropped the clubs and walked into the Auld Grey Toon for a wee nip instead of watching a player botch a game.
But I understand that in the US - unlike on ET - sometimes caddies are restricted to enter locker rooms and may have difficulties in preparing their player's bag.
K
On PGA Tour, caddies are still rarely ever allowed to enter the locker room; in Europe, I have allways been allowed to go where I needed to go.
Golf has become big business (thanks to Tiger). Players, trainers, coachs and caddies form part of a professional team; however, caddies for the most part, are still on the outside, looking in.
For example, on Thursday morning of a tournament last year, it was decided that there was not enough VIP parking, so the caddies, without warning, were sent to another lot, 3 miles away, with no shuttle service back to the course. Several caddies were in trouble, some just abandoned their cars; I was lucky because I came to the Course over 2 hours early.
The Tourn Chair apologized, which was an upstanding move on his part, but the damage was already done///
I was lucky because I came to the Course over 2 hours early.
I disagree.... ....I think you made your own "luck" in that case.
It is not hard to figure out how you got your stage name. The attention to detail and willingness to leave no stone unturned serve you well. I am so glad you are posting here.
I've lurked for awhile around here, but this thread is an absolute goldmine. Thank you both immensely for your contributions!
I have a couple of questions for you as well.
1. When you and your pro are, say, 4 or 5 over through the first 9 holes (or 6, for that matter), do you take a different approach to the rest? Obviously, you try and keep target- and shot-oriented, but what else goes on? I know the mindset has to change somewhat, whether you like it or not.
2. You've got a two-shot lead going into the final round of a tournament. How does the approach differ, if at all? What about the final 9 holes? Final 2?
3. Do expectations change from week to week? If your guy has made, say 2 cuts in the first 8 events, is just getting to the weekend the goal? Or conversely, if he has just made 2 or 3 straight top-20s or top-10s, is he solely focused on winning? Obviously expectations may not be openly discussed, as a lot of people advocate avoiding them altogether, but deep down there's got to be a change in confidence level based on past performances. And it seems to me that this change in confidence can affect the level of expectations. Or am I way off ?
I've lurked for awhile around here, but this thread is an absolute goldmine. Thank you both immensely for your contributions!
I have a couple of questions for you as well.
1. When you and your pro are, say, 4 or 5 over through the first 9 holes (or 6, for that matter), do you take a different approach to the rest? Obviously, you try and keep target- and shot-oriented, but what else goes on? I know the mindset has to change somewhat, whether you like it or not.
2. You've got a two-shot lead going into the final round of a tournament. How does the approach differ, if at all? What about the final 9 holes? Final 2?
3. Do expectations change from week to week? If your guy has made, say 2 cuts in the first 8 events, is just getting to the weekend the goal? Or conversely, if he has just made 2 or 3 straight top-20s or top-10s, is he solely focused on winning? Obviously expectations may not be openly discussed, as a lot of people advocate avoiding them altogether, but deep down there's got to be a change in confidence level based on past performances. And it seems to me that this change in confidence can affect the level of expectations. Or am I way off ?
H
I am a Tech, so here is my approach;
1. When we have a really bad start, we tend to make an extreme change; something that my player has to focus on so he cannot be thinking about anything else. Harbour Town, one year, he shot a 40 on the first nine; on our 10th hole we moved the ball in front of his front foot for a few holes; he shot a 28 and played well for the rest of the week
2. I have been lucky enough to be in this position a few times and everyone was different. On one occassion I had to reign in my player, he became very aggressive in what he wanted to do. On the 17th hole I stood in front of the bag and would not give him a club until he promised me that he would make a conservative play. In another Tourn we were standing on the 18th tee (short par 5) with a one shot lead. We had played it as a par4 all week, but there was some discussion as to whether we should play it as a 3 shot hole. I said, hit your driver and then we can decide; the ball went into a fairway bunker, and I said, now its a three shot hole/////I believe, all things being equal, that your approach should not differ, unless it has to.
3. My short answer is No, if a player does not feel that he has a chance to win, he should stay at home. I believe it was H Ford who was credited with saying that - it doesn't matter if you think you can do something or you think that you cann't, either way you are right- At a tourn in S.C., my player (after missing a few cuts) shot an 81 on Thur. He was going to go home but I talked him into playing on Fri partley because we were the first group off and after playing he could still go home. He hit the cart path with he first shot but managed to make a nice put for birdie. On the way to the second hole, we decided to keep the scuffed ball in play. He shot 31 on the front and 32 on the back (same ball) and made the cut. I kept the ball for several years and then gave it to his son.
P.S. The next week he won////////
Last edited by Overkill : 01-08-2008 at 03:08 PM.
Reason: addition
I've lurked for awhile around here, but this thread is an absolute goldmine. Thank you both immensely for your contributions!
I have a couple of questions for you as well.
1. When you and your pro are, say, 4 or 5 over through the first 9 holes (or 6, for that matter), do you take a different approach to the rest? Obviously, you try and keep target- and shot-oriented, but what else goes on? I know the mindset has to change somewhat, whether you like it or not.
2. You've got a two-shot lead going into the final round of a tournament. How does the approach differ, if at all? What about the final 9 holes? Final 2?
3. Do expectations change from week to week? If your guy has made, say 2 cuts in the first 8 events, is just getting to the weekend the goal? Or conversely, if he has just made 2 or 3 straight top-20s or top-10s, is he solely focused on winning? Obviously expectations may not be openly discussed, as a lot of people advocate avoiding them altogether, but deep down there's got to be a change in confidence level based on past performances. And it seems to me that this change in confidence can affect the level of expectations. Or am I way off ?
1. Really depends on how you got over par. If he has "earned it," ie, 5 bogeys vs. one bad hole, I might ask if he is going to shoot 90. He knows he won't do that bad, and sometimes it helps him realize that maybe all the bad stuff has already happened. A bad start could be mental, mechanical, conditions, etc. Just try to address the right thing. One key is to be so grounded in your process and routine that you don't know what you are shooting.
2. Keep doing what you did to get in the lead. We have all seen the college basketball team go into a stall too early and get run over at the end. I think that there is always a correct shot. We try to play that one each time, balancing risk and reward. The last couple of holes can call for a change of strategy based on the lead and what is going on. Mostly, you just keep playing. You should be practicing putting the game away every single day. Be a finisher. It is a mindset.
3. Forrest Gump. Life (golf) is like a box of chocolates. Turn up everyday expecting the best and prepared for the worst. You need to be in the habit of acting like a winner.
....I think you made your own "luck" in that case. 
?
Hybrid Mode
